Apparently, a Catholic priest can be forgiven for insensitivity to outright genocide more readily than for supporting women's ordination, freedom of reproductive choice, same-sex marriage or the existence of (non-molesting and inoffensive) gay clergy....

( Here's the situation...Collapse )

Tell me again, in case it makes some sense I'm not seeing....why do humanistic and socially-intelligent people stay with the Roman Catholic Church (or any cultural-conservative establishment) and support it with their tithing and numbers, when these are the edicts and moral priorities issued from the top of the pyramid (and I don't mean God)? Shouldn't they more logically be splintering off, or seeking out the religious version of, well...Canada? If it's about the music and the artwork and the architecture of the Vatican and the cathedrals, I can certainly see not wanting to leave all that behind, and I know there's a good deal of cultural entwinement -- but it's certainly not the only access-route to God, so to speak. I should think that it'd be a relief to be able to separate oneself from the weight of that religious history, and no longer have to apologize and rationalize the contradictions of one's faith.

Though of course, the greater largescale question is whether a smaller-but-more-ardent Church, as Benedict prefers, would be focused enough by its loss of liberal balance to start being (again) a serious hazard to the progress of civilization...and what is it worth to prevent that, if so?
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The following is from dogemperor  on the dark_christian LJ community...am forwarding widely as requested.  Original post and commentary is here.
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( A certain itinerant healer and preacher is reputed to have said that the meek will inherit the earth...Collapse )

I don't deny that religion has any value, or that any philosophy of social or spiritual import doesn't have something worth considering.  But seriously, folks, my general opinion these days is that the "meek" inheriting the earth are going to be those people who have the sanity not to pit themselves against each other in self-righteous hostilities.  The people who have the all-'round intelligence to be able to coexist with each other, left when all the others who can't envision any compromise of their fervour have killed each other off. 

Which also brings to mind that there may need to be some laying-low, in that hyper-Armageddonistic case....but I digress. 

Point is, there's no point in fanaticism.  It's all very well to be willing to die for the integrity of your beliefs, whatever they may be, but the instant you think it justified to kill, harm and suppress others for the maintenance and global expansion of your beliefs, an ethical line has been crossed, and the very concept of what we often call "civilization" requires that people learn to live with each other without infringing upon each others' rights, and that a core body of human rights be upheld regardless of the religious (or anti-religious) dictates claimed as excuse for their violation.  To allow exceptions because of tradition or cultural respect is to allow oppression of an actual nature - as opposed to the false claim of "oppression" which simply means that an assumed majority is peeved at not being allowed to harrass and oppress the rest on account of it, or that a group culture - large or small, popular or reviled - is being stymied in its attempts to maintain an inexorable and perpetual hold on those it consider its own. 


So.....having opened this whole kettle of worms, I propose that this online community is a place for all serious thinkers who are not fanatics - or perhaps might be recovering fanatics, as per the title - to share our thoughts and reasonings (and frustrations and outrage) about the state of religion and culture and law, and where it ought to be seen that people have gone too far in forcing their "faith." 


I welcome you all to this forum, and especially those members of dark_christian  who have been wanting a broader range of topic and discourse than just the Christian dominionist movements per se.  As a general note, I highly recommend dark_christian and its comprehensive resources to anyone beginning to explore the field of Christian socioreligious warfare, as well as those seeking answers and explanations to the religious proselytizing and pressures they may have personally experienced in the "evangelical Christian" area.