cypher: (not easy being chosen)
marsupial fruitcake ([personal profile] cypher) wrote2009-11-30 06:06 pm

gender stuff

This is a post that I've been trying not to make, because I feel like I don't have as much right to it as a lot of people, and I don't want to call attention to myself unnecessarily. But I'm also varying degrees of uncomfortable-to-queasy every time this problem comes up, so. Self-conscious or not, I think I need to say this.

My relationship with my gender:
My body is female. I can live with that as long as nobody calls attention to it or expects it to determine my behavior, but I don't identify with it and I'm not happy being reminded of it. Please don't use gendered terms to address me unless you really need to (and I am having trouble thinking of an instance where you would need to). This includes stuff like:
- "you're a bad influence, woman!"
- referring to the inhabitants of this house collectively as "ladies"
- epithets like "temptress," even teasingly

I'm not trying to say that you shouldn't say these things at all. I recognize that they're intended to be friendly and often affectionate. But they are a poor fit for me. If there is a non-gendered term you could use instead, I will be very, very grateful if you take that option.

Pronouns:
I don't have a serious problem with female pronouns. They are technically accurate, if not exactly awesome. I'm grateful when people avoid them or use third-gender ones, but I know that neither of those things is intuitive.

I'm not looking for apologies from anyone who has done this in the past; like I said, I know that the intent is friendly, and this information is not immediately obvious. I'm just putting it out there now in the hopes that it'll make me more comfortable in conversations in the future.

Thank you for listening.
libitina: Wei Yingluo from Story of Yanxi Palace in full fancy costume holding a gaiwan and sipping tea (Default)

[personal profile] libitina 2009-12-01 02:25 am (UTC)(link)
Oh, hey - just this weekend I got a visit from my college ex. There was a mention of, "So what is going on with [personal profile] cypher?" Ex was passing through philly on the way to Chicago from New York City, and I got to see wedding pictures and meet the wife. It was only slightly weird, and we had brunch.
libitina: Wei Yingluo from Story of Yanxi Palace in full fancy costume holding a gaiwan and sipping tea (Default)

[personal profile] libitina 2009-12-01 04:49 am (UTC)(link)
Yes, D's life is going well. It's only a little odd that the wife is a librarian who bound their wedding album herself. D is all but dissertation for rabbinical studies, if that works that way. I'm a little confused on the matter. But there was a dissertation topic discussed (how changing gender roles/identity/presentation and changing gender v. marriage laws are affecting marital practices within the strictly gendered traditional Jewish marriage ceremony). They own a 1 bedroom apartment/condo just a couple blocks from their synagogue.

And, also, a lot of the conversation was me explaining to D's wife that I don't keep in contact with much of anyone - very much on purpose. And, oddly (or maybe not), I think almost everyone with whom I do keep in contact is a bit queer with gender.
libitina: Wei Yingluo from Story of Yanxi Palace in full fancy costume holding a gaiwan and sipping tea (Default)

[personal profile] libitina 2021-05-03 07:06 am (UTC)(link)
I've been getting back to dreamwidth a bit, and I figured I'd check to see if you were still here.

I'm still in the same city and doing pretty well. I've got a new fandom set of interests, and I've found myself thinking that you might really enjoy a show I've watched.

It's a Chinese wuxia drama called Word of Honor, available with English subtitles on youtube and a platform called Viki. You'll be able to figure out within the first episode whether it's interesting to you or not.

Lux (car) is aging and needs some minor maintenance, but is still being reliable and a welcome part of my life.

Hope you are well.
meigui: fanart: Dairine Callahan; Young Wizards; Diane Duane (new horizons)

[personal profile] meigui 2009-12-01 02:38 am (UTC)(link)
meigui: original: Mountain Witch and Tiger (these things have rules)

[personal profile] meigui 2009-12-01 03:51 am (UTC)(link)
English can be super annoying when it comes to gender, methinks. I mean, it's not as bad as the Romance languages where everything is gendered (did you know Romantic gender used to indicate animacy vs. inanimacy? And no points for guessing which became male and which became female :/ ), but bad enough. In Chinese you actually have to make an effort to gender pretty much anything except, like, familial relationships and the like. Most things are of some form [thing] that becomes [male]-[thing] or [female]-[thing] if you really want to specify.
freezingrayne: (Aki and Shinji)

[personal profile] freezingrayne 2009-12-01 02:53 am (UTC)(link)
I tend not to go to heavy with the gender references on the internet, if only because there is really no telling what gender anyone is, and it wouldn't really matter that much if you did know. .
penny: (Default)

[personal profile] penny 2009-12-01 03:23 am (UTC)(link)
*hugs* You have every right to feel comfortable!
subtext: A big shiny fabulous rainbow cake, labeled "subtext." (Default)

[personal profile] subtext 2009-12-01 03:35 am (UTC)(link)
It is good to know these things! You have every right to inform people of them; it is, in fact, helpful. I think I have quashed the impulse to say "ladies" to your household at large before, out of not being sure if folks would be comfortable with that, so thank you for explaining your preferences. I would much rather be well-informed than guess wrong, and gender pronoun preference is a socially awkward question to ask! :)
subtext: A big shiny fabulous rainbow cake, labeled "subtext." (Default)

[personal profile] subtext 2009-12-01 04:28 am (UTC)(link)
I'm sure it isn't easy to bring up from your end either, no-- I respect you for having the strength of will to say it anyway, and you are very welcome. ^^
white_aster: (Default)

[personal profile] white_aster 2009-12-01 03:48 am (UTC)(link)
Good to know! I've wondered before if you prefer any of the neutral pronouns to the usual ones. And I will probably forget to use nongendered language at several points in the future, for which I can only pre-emptively apologize, but I are trying! :D
white_aster: (Default)

[personal profile] white_aster 2009-12-01 04:08 am (UTC)(link)
It's a simple thing to ask for! I mean, really, using the right words is nothing compared to not making you uncomfortable. :D
ilyat: (Dune - Guild - I Did Not Say This)

[personal profile] ilyat 2009-12-01 03:59 am (UTC)(link)
Can you give me a rundown on the gender neutral pronouns? I honestly have little to no experience with them. (Hir and sie, I believe? Am I missing any others?) I will likely forget to use them where appropriate as they are not yet integrated in my daily vocabulary. ^^;
ilyat: (BSG - Starbuck - Salute)

[personal profile] ilyat 2009-12-01 04:11 am (UTC)(link)
Thanks for the rundown!

Is one or the other (S vs Z) more common or more widely accepted? Evolving languages are fascinating.
regicidaldwarf: (Default)

Jumping in

[personal profile] regicidaldwarf 2009-12-01 04:49 am (UTC)(link)
Because I'm not too familiar with the pronouns myself, how does one pronounce "sie"? Like "sea"? And is "hir" like "hear"?
hl: Drawing of Ada Lovelace as a young child, reading a Calculus book (Default)

[personal profile] hl 2009-12-01 04:13 am (UTC)(link)
Is 'they' OK? It's what I usually use. (I never get used to zie et al because I can never remember quite how to use them, but it would be the perfect opportunity to make the effort if someone of my acquaintance actually prefers them.)
hl: Drawing of Ada Lovelace as a young child, reading a Calculus book (Default)

[personal profile] hl 2009-12-01 06:46 pm (UTC)(link)
Cool, then, I'll look into one of the zie-type pronouns.

(I got totally used to 'they' because I'm a fan of Jane Austen. :D)
regicidaldwarf: (Default)

[personal profile] regicidaldwarf 2009-12-01 05:02 am (UTC)(link)
Thanks for letting us know what makes you comfortable. I will endeavor to change my verbal usage in the future. :)
duowolf: (Default)

[personal profile] duowolf 2009-12-01 01:17 pm (UTC)(link)
Thanks for letting us know. It's always helpful to know what makes people feel comfortable with themselves if that makes sense.
lassarina: (Agreian - General Bad-Ass)

[personal profile] lassarina 2009-12-01 05:28 pm (UTC)(link)
Thank you for the reminder.

I have been trying to remember to use the neutral pronouns for you since some posts you had made back on InsaneJournal regarding gender and comfort therewith, actually. It is never bad to let people know things that make you uncomfortable in your own space.

(Also, although I realize it is in no way at all your responsibility to educate me, I hope that if I slip up and say something really dumb, that you would point it out so I do not do it again, because I do not want to be hurtful to you.)

*e-hugs*
lassarina: (Celes: Just a Fading Dream)

[personal profile] lassarina 2009-12-02 03:21 pm (UTC)(link)


Unrelated to current topic, I checked in with the mods at [livejournal.com profile] getyourwordsout and they said that they are specifically not planning on expanding to DW in 2010 (though maybe in 2011, if 2010 goes well on LJ), so I don't know if it's more feasible to do something along those lines at Copper Street (a year goal? monthly goals?) in the interim or just be patient.

Strange how a year used to be forever and now it's the blink of an eye.
were_duck: Icon of woman hugging a man who looks like a page out of a book (Bookhug)

[personal profile] were_duck 2009-12-02 04:50 am (UTC)(link)
I'm a total newcomer to your journal (hi fellow wrangler!), so I know it doesn't mean a lot coming from me, but thanks for posting this! I really appreciate that you wrote this up, and of course I'll be happy to adopt sie/hir for thinking of and writing to you.
blue_soaring: (hugh // little bashful)

[personal profile] blue_soaring 2009-12-02 05:10 am (UTC)(link)
This... may be an odd and maybe only semi-appropriate question, but! I would rather know than not know! I switched over to thinking of you as 'he' a long, long while ago (and I am not sure exactly why right now, but I could probably figure out why this is what my brain did), so would you prefer third-gender to that? It feels rude and awkward to be asking!
blue_soaring: (dean // love me)

[personal profile] blue_soaring 2009-12-02 05:38 am (UTC)(link)
Whew, okay! :D I had a slight meep moment there, thinking I'd have to go about deliberately realigning my mental image of you. It was so much easier when it just happened (shame on me, lazy), which I think just... happened through talking with you. (I did not know you were brother-figure! That's pretty cool. :3)
lynndyre: Fennec fox smile (Default)

[personal profile] lynndyre 2009-12-02 07:14 am (UTC)(link)
Thank you for saying something. :)
puella_nerdii: (will to power)

[personal profile] puella_nerdii 2009-12-02 07:34 am (UTC)(link)
*hugs* Speak up, by all means. You have every right to be comfortable, and I can't think that anyone would begrudge you that -- certainly not everyone who reads you, at any rate.

Basically, you are you, and the you you are is a pretty cool person, regardless of gender identity. Hopefully that sentence made sense.

[personal profile] augustphoenix 2009-12-02 05:12 pm (UTC)(link)
Gah, I really haven't had a chance to check DW in the last couple of weeks (as evidenced by Copper Street, methinks). Thanks for explaining this, and I will try not to say anything that makes you uncomfortable.
crossfortune: dan heng, honkai star rail (Default)

[personal profile] crossfortune 2009-12-03 05:06 am (UTC)(link)
Thank you for saying something, and I'll try to remember.
starbird: (I'll meet you tonight under the stars)

[personal profile] starbird 2009-12-03 05:41 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm glad you made this post. I will definitely bear this in mind in the future. <3