Roman roads in the Hyde area

I have been interested for many years now in trying to see if there is any evidence of roman roads passing through the Hyde area. The nearest certain Roman camps or stations are situated in Castleshaw Manchester (Mamucium) and Melandra Castle, Glossop (Ardotalia). Stockport is also possible, but despite strong local tradition, there is little evidence of a Roman site.

A few Roman coins have been found on the banks of the Mersey many years ago, other Roman coins cropped up east of Bredbury railway station in the 1930's and also a coin found in Hyde in 1905.

The first possibility is a road from Stockport crossing an old ford on the Mersey near the market place, this continuing through Bredbury into Hyde as Stockport Road. This road then possibly continues along Mottram Old Road to Melandra Castle in Glossop. (See maps )

A Roman road from Melandra castle to the Cheshire area has been said to cross Werneth Low at some point, whether it's the same road as above or a different one is debatable.

The third possibility is the road from Castleshaw in Manchester to Melandra castle in Glossop. If a straight line is drawn between the two it passes straight through the centre of Hyde and Godley.

The Roman road builders would always try and build their roads as straight as possible, but obviously due to geographical conditions , it was not always possible, so some deviations are inevitable. Even so this road must have passed through Hyde at some place.

I have checked the internet, but unfortunately it does not come up with anything definite, only vague references.

Middletons's History of Hyde says the following:-

The main road, which ran from Chester to York by way of Manchester, was joined by crossways which connected the forts at Manchester with those at Stockport, Melandra and Brough in the Vale of Hope. The road from Stockport passed over Werneth low to Melandra thence under the base of Buckton Hill through Saddleworth, when it joined the main road from Manchester to York.

It would be nice to try and locate the Castleshaw to Melandra road, as it appears as far as I can see, without contacting local archeologists , that we seem to have been missed out. Admittedly due to all the modern roads and buildings, it may be impossible now to locate them, somebody may have some knowledge of possible locations. If anyone has any info or suspicions please let us know.

Mottram Old Road, Greenside

I recently came across this photograph which I took from Werneth Low, probably in the 1980s, of the road works on Mottram Old Road to get rid of what was considered to be a dangerous bend near High Bank and Greenside Farm.

For comparison I've cropped a photograph taken from nearly the same spot in October 2010 to show the same part of that road.

Looking over to Hattersley

A lovely quiet road.

London Olympics 1948

HYDE'S LAST OLYMPIAN

In the early 1900s we had Hyde swimmers representing Great Britain in the Olympic Games but many people will remember the town's last Olympian, Lillian Preece.
Born on April 1st, 1928, Lillian learnt to swim when she was 11.  Her progress was so rapid that in the same year she won three titles at the Hyde Seal annual gala. The war stopped all competitions but by the time she was 19 she was setting ASA records and winning Cheshire County and Northern Counties championships. In 1947 she was selected to represent Britain in the European championships in Monte Carlo. Money was scarce after the war so because the ASA was unable to provide the swimmers with lightweight costumes an appeal was made to the newspapers, and Lillian had to compete in Monte Carlo wearing a man's waterpolo swim suit. She took part in the 4 x 100m relay team which was placed third.

 Lillian at Monte Carlo in a waterpolo swimsuit.

 The following year she was selected to represent Great Britain at the Olympics in London. She stayed at the Eccleston Square Domestic Science College along with swimmers from Belgium, France, Switzerland Australia, Ireland and New Zealand. There were no proper training facilities at the Empire Pool where everyone was trying to train at the same time and arrangements had to be made at other pools in the area.

 

Olympic Games opening ceremony, 1948

 

 

 

 After the Olympics there was a reception at Buckingham Palace.

More success and more championships followed and in 1952 Lillian was chosen to captain the women's Olympic team in Helsinki where she reached the semi-final of the 100 metres and was the fastest British competitor.
During her swimming career she went to New Zealand, Helsinki, Copenhagen, Paris, Nice, Monaco, Turin, Curacao, Dutch West Indies and Panama and captained International teams on three occasions.
In 1953 Lillian was awarded the ASA Yeadon Trophy as Swimmer of the Year.
Unfortunately, in 1958 nine of her medals were stolen, including commemorative medals from the 1948 and 1952 Olympics, and one for the 1950 Empire games, all bearing her name.


She left Hyde to live in Wallasey with her husband, himself a former backstroke champion and captain of the Cheshire Waterpolo team, but never lost contact with Hyde Seal and was an inspiration to many younger swimmers.
Many people will remember this picture of Lillian which hung in Hyde Baths for many years.

 

Lillian Preece

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 Lillian eventually emigrated to Zimbabwe where she died in 2004.
 Preece Close in Newton is named after her.


Many thanks to Marjorie Robinson for this fabulous account and all the photographs of a very talented lady, all of which are new to me !





                                

Mary Street

Mary Street was the home of my paternal grandparents  Thomas and Sarah Wigley...... I can recall going there when my grandfather was alive so I was probably 3-4 years old at that time.. I recall sitting on his knee and his pocket watch and fob chain... He died in September 1962, 2 months after my 4th birthday. As for Mary Street I recall parts of the house and certain objects in it. I remember on the wall a picture of a coal mine... little did I realise it was Hyde Lane Pit... but more on that picture again. 

I recall these steps very well

View From Clarke Way

My cousin Joyce lived on Mary Street with Gran and Granddad.  The above picture was taken outside the family home when she was 8 years old, is now in her 70s. Joyce has a great memory and whenever the chance arises I gleam more information from her.  

All these 'up to date' are courtesy of our very own photographer Dave Williams  

  

This is the view looking back towards Clarke Way

On the left was Caxton Mill a building which had some beautiful features to it.

Woodend Lane Views

Two views of Woodend Lane... both taken across from St. Georges Vicarage more or less in the same place.. One taken around a hundred years after the other.. but I noticed the street lamp is in a similar place... I also know which view I'd prefer to see when walking this lane. 

Around Gee Cross... Follow-Up

Red Lion on the Left.... looking down Stockport Road... I came across reference to this area being once known as Treacle Hill... I know Treacle Brow run from Stockport Road to Mottram Old Road by the side of the Werneth.. but would be very interested in hearing anything else about this area.. names, shops, and such like.

Another view of Stockport Road and Mottran Old Road

Around Gee Cross

Travelers Rest Joel Lane

Stockport Road - Mottram Old Road Junction

Thanks to Tracy and Clive for these two pictures.

Post Cards Of Mottram Old Road

Note the spelling on the one above

I have done this walk quite a few time in the past... once or twice at night as well.. it was never as quiet as this... or as peaceful looking.

Postcards Of Dowson Road

Looking down towards Gerrards

Heading towards Knott Lane

Note the steeple at Hyde Chapel.

It is not long since Dowson road had a 60mph speed limit... seems hard to imagine that now on such a busy road. These two postcards are numbered 3 and 4... if you have copies of the first two we'd be pleased to show them.. and does anyone know how many were in the series?

Gibraltar Row

Gib Row... these were at the bottom of Apethorn Lane... you had to go through the aquaduct to get to these... or cross the 'Green Bridge' over the canal and then take the steps down. I remember the old Gib mill being worked, and I recall these being pulled down... but cannot recall when that was. I know that long after they had gone a lady would walk past the back of our house on Cheetham Fold, cross the train lines by the 'Level Crossing.. walk past Thislefields and take the track at the side of the cottages there, which lead you under the main train line and towards the aquaduct to visit this spot. Sometimes she would come every evening around 7 o-clock or so... other time she would go weeks without coming past. If I was playing on the fields or the train lines near to the level crossing she would always say hello, smile and give me a mint. She was a nice lady but always looked sad... my mum and dad knew her and said she used to live in Gib Row and missed the place... I always thought there was more to the story but never got to find it out.

My neighbour Ray used to live in one of these... I know he looks in now and then, hopefully he might be able to tell me about this row and who lived here..

Looking up Stockport Road.

This is the view looking up Stockport Road at the junction with Knight Street circa 1910. The shop on the corner was at one point owned by a Mr Charles Lyons. It stood there until the mid 1970's when it was turned into a house. My Friend lived there and they still had the original signs for the shop in the cellar! I wonder what happened to them! There also used to be a Newsagents , a wool shop and a DIY type shop further up the row. Such a shame the shops closed down as a bit of the community disappeared with them.
On Tithe maps of 1836-51 this particular piece of land was owned by Edward Hyde Clarke.

Not changed a great deal in this 2010 photo. The shop / house is now flats. The garden wall on the right of the 1910 picture was the wall to Silver Hill House. This wall is gone but there is a house called Silver hill still standing. This was a Nursery for many years.The shop further up on the left ,which was Hursts Newsagents for approximately 20 years, is now in the process of being changed back into a "paper shop" after being closed for a couple of years.... and not before time either! There is a Hairdressers next door,also.
I have to say it looks nicer on the 1910 picture with the cobbled streets - tarmac isn't quite the same :)

Spout House Farm

Before the construction of Dowson Road in the early 1920's and the subsequent housing development which occured along Knott Lane , the land to the west of Hyde Chapel was attached to Spout House Farm.


Tithe Map 1836-51

In 1712 the building was occupied By Robert Ashton. Later tenants included Joseph Redfern in 1816 who was a shopkeeper and Amy Redfern in 1850 ,a Corn dealer.

It seems ,according to the baptism register at Hyde Gee Cross Unitarian Chapel, that Blind Jack of Knarsborough's first daughter Tabitha, who had married a Cheshire cotton manufacturer, lived at Spout House farm. This is also confirmed by the Werneth Land Tax records.
(Grateful thanks to Gay J Oliver for her invaluble information on "Blind Jack of Knaresborough")

(John Metcalfe 1717-1810, otherwise known as Blind Jack of Knaresborough was a famous road building pioneer, pre-dating Telford and Macadam.)....but that's another blog :)


Photo Courtesy G J Oliver.

This building is still in existence and is located between Enfield Street and Tatton Street,Gee Cross

Disappearing Hyde Streets.

Whilst researching for this blog it has come to my attention that approximately 36 streets have disappeared from the Hyde area over the years.....and that's just the ones I've noticed so far!

Helen St
Norbury St
Foundry St
Platt St
Thomas St
Albion St
Cotton St
Mottram St
Lewis St
Spring St
Haughton St (Godley)
Hoviley Brow
George St
Bank St
George St West
Cooper St
Hewitt St
Wharf St
Oak St
Lucas St
Charles St
Hall St (Not Newton)
Rochfort St
Cooper St
Alma St
Mill St
Randall St
Howard St
Oak St
Thomas St (Flowery Field)
James St (Flowery Field)
John St (Flowery Field)
Mulberry St (Flowery Field)
High St (Flowery Field)
John St East (Flowery Field)
Broadbent St (Flowery Field)
Mount St (Flowery Field)


Please feel free to add any other you might be able to think of!

Brownsons Tower.

Brownsons was a clothiers that was situated on the corner of Clarendon Street and Hamnett Street near to Hyde Market. It was started originally by Thomas Brownson and was run by the Brownson Family who had stores in other towns in the area namely Ashton under Lyne and Stalybridge. This was a store that catered for the whole family having a mens ,ladies and juvenile section.


It was a very distinctive store owing to the fact that it had a tower.
This building was later used by Woolworths Ltd and presently is occupied by a Poundstretcher store.

This 1910 shot shows Brownsons with the sunblinds down. The view is looking down Clarendon place towards the Queens Hotel.

This scene shows the view across the market place in the 1920's.



Thomas Brownson Esq. BA was a JP who had dealings with the Mechanics institute in Hyde . He lived at "Burnside" which was situated near Gower Hey Woods .



Mrs Brownson ,his wife, laid one of the foundation stones at Zion Congregational Sunday school in 1898.


A paper cutting showing an advertisement for Brownsons store in Old Square ,Ashton under Lyne.



"Brownsons Tower" Circa 1965 . Woolworth was occupying it by then.

Hyde Corn Mill

THE OLD HYDE CORN MILL

In the old records from Godley there’s mention of a corn mill that once existed, but of which every trace gone and so ancient was the structure that we are now unsure where it was at all.
Hyde was more fortunate as the picturesque old corn mill of Hyde, stood, as ruins to around the 1880s. Thomas Middleton wrote about it in the Annals Of Hyde and I quote him here: “At one time its situation upon the banks of " the bonnie river Tame" was one of great beauty, and the old mill made a grand addition to the pleasant features of the scenery. It doubtless was the successor of former structures upon or near the same spot, as a corn mill had existed on the river at Hyde from the time of King John.”

In years long gone the mill would have formed an important institution in the surrounding area. It enjoyed the patronage and protection of the lords of the manor, and at one time also had a worthy reputation among the poorer people of the neighbourhood.
In the 179os John Aiken's gives mention to the mill in his book ‘40 Miles Round Manchester’… "Betwixt the bridge and Hyde Hall is a mill for grinding corn, for the use of which as well as for that of a water engine on the Lancashire side belonging to some valuable coal mines of Mr. Clarke, is a weir which throws a broad sheet of water to a considerable depth below, where it has worked a hole many yards deep and wide. The appearance and noise of this cascade have a romantic effect, and the river for half a mile above is made by it to appear like a lake forming a fine piece of water, well stocked with trout and eels."

Prior to the making of the railroad and the Peak Forest Canal, a winding valley ran from the river almost to where Hyde Town Hall now stands. The sides of this valley were covered with trees, and the place was known as " Mill Wood " on account of the corn mill being situated at the end of the valley. The last remnant of this valley was filled in around 1890. Most of the buildings and streets behind the Town Hall stand upon earth that has been "tipped"…. That’s hard to imagine now when you think of Asda and the Theatre Royal.. Corporation Street, Great Norbury Street, the railway, canal, then towards the scrap yards on Raglan Street, then across to where the old Gas works stood…. that’s some tipping for sure.
Thomas Middleton wrote in the Annals Of Hyde 1899 the following: “what is now Corporation Street was a deep hollow, with a brook at the bottom; the sides of the valley being laid as gardens“ he recalled in the book a story from an old lady who knew Hyde well, who wrote this of the old Corn Mill and the Miller: "Anyone walking along the river bank could not but be struck with the sound of the 'Old Hundredth' or of one of the Church chants, sounding morning and evening from the mill, as the miller did his task, vibrating through the stately beech trees which towered far above the old building that had been worked by generations of one family now all gone to rest. The sound was so impressive that I often recall it with very deep feelings. And each Sabbath morning, when the splash of the water-wheels was hushed, there at his cottage door, across the river, could be seen the miller, with his large Bible on his knee, reading aloud to his family. It was a sight not readily forgotten, particularly in summer, with the lilacs and roses in bloom, and the sun shining on the river, and the music of the falling weir coming through the spray."

The above account now well over 200 years ago paints a nice picture of this area, with Hyde being very far removed from how we know it today. The millers were a family of Ashtons, who worked the mill for generations, in the old registers at Denton Old Church., there are entries there about this family, of which two of the later ones state the following:: 1796. John, son of Robert Ashton, Miller, of Hyde; born July 18th, baptised August 14th. And then in 1812. Hannah, daughter of John Ashton, Miller, of Haughton, Nancy: born August 9th, baptised Sept. 22nd, 1812.
Thomas Middleton wrote that he spent many hours in the ruined rooms of the old mill, playing in his childhood. The building was then dilapidated with age and crumbling to decay. It was, however, of picturesque appearance and with care would have worn out generations of mortals. When the building was eventually pulled down, the oak beams and floors were purchased by Mr. John Thornely and were formed into handsome hall cabinets.

By the look of this picture it was near to where the Showman’s Guild have their site in the dip off Mill Lane, and nearer to the bridge than I thought it was. You can get a better idea of it from the Haughton side of the Tame, then walk further down following the Tame then look up at where the old Gas works once stood on Raglan Street.… that’s quite a hill to say it was part of the landfill from the back of Hyde Town Hall.

Hyde Lane & It's Off-Shoots

A History Of Hyde Lane

The track that was to become Hyde Lane was never a good road in olden days, in winter and wet weather it was almost impassable, as none of the brooks that it crossed were bridged or culverted until the beginning of the 1800s. The lane began at the entrance of the road from Lancashire into Cheshire. Crossing the river Tame by the ford from Broomstair, the road reached a point on the Hyde side of the river, just below the junction of the Tame and the brook coming from Godley and Newton known as Wilson Brook.

Old cottages in Kingston Hollow
Showing the road to the old ford crossing

The road followed the course of the brook to the foot of " Bowker's " Brow , now known as Kingston Brow, then it ascended the brow to the entrance gates to Hyde Hall (White Gates).

The White Gates Inn

The road to the hall was also the road to the Old Corn Mill, and to another ford which crossed the Tame below the Corn Mill, for Glass House Fold, the Coal Pits, and Haughton Green.

Hyde Cornmill

Sometime in the mid 1700s, Squire George Clarke built a bridge over the river Tame at Broomstair, made a connecting road and another bridge over Wilson Brook near to the cottages in the picture above, to the foot of Bowker's Brow, and by agreement with the inhabitants of Hyde and Haughton, dedicated them to public use, he to have the old road, ford, etc., and the public to repair the bridge and new road for ever.

Manchester Road where the road cross Wilsons Brook

Hyde Lane crossed the canal by a bridge which is still known as Hyde Lane Bridge, and went on towards Hollow Brow, Newton Street.

Newton Street-Dukinfield Road Junction

When the Ashtons built the "Hollow Factory," early in 1800s, Hollow Brow was only a Pack Horse Road, worn down between lofty banks, and so narrow that two horses could not pass. It was shaded by high hedges and trees. The road forded the brook at the bottom of the brow, and winding its way up the opposite slope, went along the Old Road to the junction with the ancient highway from Yorkshire to Lancashire Bennett Street and what was then called Muslin Street but now known as Talbot Road.

Top Of Matley Lane

The Waggon and Horses on Mottram Road

Muslin Street/Talbot Road

The Yorkshire road came from Saltersbrook, the meeting place for the exchange of traffic by the Lancashire and Yorkshire carriers ; it crossed the moors of Longdendale, Hollingworth, made its way down Matley Lane, Bennett Street, Newton Hall, Dukinfield Hall, to Shepley Bridge, which at one time the only bridge across the Tame in these parts. At he time of the building of the Hollow Factory there was a water wheel on the Newton side of Wilson Brook, which worked "Pump Trees," up to the coal pit at Flowery Field. The Ashtons widened Hollow Brow, built the bridge, and altered the road to its present course, and established a Toll Bar at Bayley Field, and tolled all wheeled vehicles until the road was taken over by the township. The point of junction of Hollow Brow with Hyde Lane was called Atterclough, and the length of the road from this point to Hoviley Lane was called Red Pump Street.

Newton Street - Manchester Road Junction

Hoviley Lane branched off Hyde Lane at Squire Hegginbottom's house, later the District Bank at the corner of the market, and passing the Ridling Pits, and went down Hoviley Brow and forded the Lumn Brook near the printworks' gates. From here it went to Hoviley Ford, which, previous to the building of the printworks, was opposite the site of the Talbot Inn.

Hoviley Brow

The brook having been diverted for the purposes of the print works. After leaving this ford, the road skirted Newton Green which was then common land, joined the road coming over Newton Moor from Ashton, then forded the brook from Goodier Bottoms, and finally went to Pudding Lane, which ran by Brook House Farm to Mottram.

Continuing from its junction with the Hoviley branch, Hyde Lane went past several old cottages and a farm, then Hegginbothams Tan Yards now the site of Corporation Street, to where the road crossed the brook to run down Mill Wood to the river Tame. Next it passed some low-lying houses and the village Pinfold and the Stocks. It passed a footpath which as grown into Union Street which led across "Shepley Fields" to Ridling Lane, and, further on, a road leading to various farms and Wood End-Church Street.

Higher up, on the easterly side of Hyde Lane, were several Squatters' cottages, which existed until the start of the 1900s. The lane went by these to Tinker Hill, where a junction was made with Back Lane. This lane led to Walker Fold Lane, down Lumn Hollow, where an ancient bridle path, passed by Lumn Farm, then branched off, and then it became Ridling Lane, until it joined Hoviley Lane at Ridling pits (on the site of Queen's Hotel, Clarendon Place).

Walker Fold Birth Place of Hyde Poet James Leigh

From Back Lane to Smithy Fold, Hyde Lane had wide margins of grass land on each side. Smithy Fold was really a small hamlet with farm houses, cottages, etc., and the road passing through the midst of them. From this Fold Hyde Lane wound its way past Clough Gates, Back Bower Lane, and eventually became part of the Turnpike Road, close to which Hyde Chapel had been built in the year 1708.

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While doing this post, I was very much aware of all the streams/brooks and such like that had now been crossed. There's folk in Hyde who do not even realise how many there are. Some are now but trickles but at one time these brooks have been put to good use for the running of water wheels and such like. In the 1800s they were culverted and bridges built to carry the roads over them. As these brooks were in valleys, these would have been needed to be filled in... changing the lay of the land to what we know it as now. Some of us recall the amount of earth moved when the M67 was cut in the 1970s.... none of us can remember the earth that must have been needed to level the valley's and gully's of old. It would have been the same with the canal and railways... Hyde as certainly seen its fair share of civil engineering take place, and Hyde Lane must have been quite an achievement when it was done. Next time you are out and about and near to a stream just think of it's course and how it cuts through our town on it's way to the Tame.... think of the work that was done, some over 200 years ago and marvel at the workmanship and a job well done...