I get the general gist. I mean, you have a first sign-up where the actual participants are being chosen, and you sort them in groups, and then you have to narrow them down, end result last man/woman/persyn standing. But, uh, the details... bzuh.
No, they seemed extraordinarily convoluted to me as well. So much so that I'm rather turned off by it. There is a lot to be said for presentation of information and IMO, they kinda failed. Walls of text with repetitive but poorly defined phrases (cabal and pool) aren't great tools.
Found out it was actually targeted at people already familiar with the comm and similar games from LJ. So for those it makes sense, but for newcomers I'd say it's an unnecessary hurdle to overcome. It's rather frustrating.
Just a tad. It's not my cup of tea in any case, but it's something I'm mindful of now because I'm going to be running a community that's going to need a bit of explanation, so it was a good object lesson.
When you join dreamwidth_idol you have entered the Pool. It is from the Pool that players are selected to enter a Cabal. A Cabal is a group of players who have done well in the general Pool and have been sent off to determine amongst themselves who is the best Idol among them.
As I mentioned above, it's a painkiller day, but I am really confused by who goes from the Pool to the Cabal and why and when.
And are there several of these Cabals going on at once?
I just made a new post to dreamwidth_idol that will hopefully make it easier to process.
Basically, you go from the Pool to a Cabal when you come in on the top four of a week's poll. There will be multiple Cabals going on at once, as people play every week that aren't in Cabals win polls and get selected. You're only in one at a time, though, so you're competing against the same, smaller group of people.
There will be multiple Cabals going on at once, as people play every week that aren't in Cabals win polls and get selected.
Oh, I think I misunderstood that point. I kept thinking the groups would stay fixed after the initial choice of members and just get smaller and smaller, but new members can come in? Is that to prevent thinning out of Cabals, e.g. if too many people get sick or can't make it in time or something? (Giving reasons for a rule can be helpful for my understanding, too.)
Also, couldn't edit my previous comment, sorry - I just saw your new post to the comm. I have no problems getting the general, basic outline you provided there. That I understand perfectly well. It's the details, with the multiple groups and the voting processes therein with different types of votes and the changing member rosters...
New members go into new groups - once a group has filled new members don't go in it. Cabals are intended to thin out. If you don't make your entry in time you are automatically eliminated, and after taking a week off you can join another Cabal by participating in the pool and winning that poll.
It rolls each week. So you could have to wait up to a month before you begin group play. I split this out so that the competition in the groups will be good and meaningful, and so it shows a person has the basic skills in whatever they do to compete. It also is how people can join in on Idol at any point.
First: thanks for asking for input, I think that's awesome!
Two, I'll just ramble, and you can ask if anything's not clear, and don't see this as a "change your rules to Z or your community sucks", 'kay?
So: We're still wondering -- where "we" is Yvi, dancing_serpent and I, all people who have English as a second language -- if it's a language barrier / colloquial vocabulary thing or a general thing. For me, personally, the descriptions started to blur after a bit. Like I said above, I get the general concept, but the split into Cabals major and minor, plus rules tied to number of members, and who gets to vote on what, became confusing. Especially the Bye vote. What is a Bye vote, and what does it do? Is it for voting someone out instead of in? On the other hand, it says you can "win" it, which makes it sound like a good thing. Is there knowledge from previous instalments that I'm missing? I think I need someone to do a chart for me where it's all structured clearly with points A to B to C and "if X then [arrow pointing to next step]".
I'll try to cover everything. If I miss something, of course, please ask.
Think of it like this. Everyone starts in the pool. People win polls in the pool (they are among the top four in the week's open poll) and are selected to go into a group (cabal). I start a new group once there's 16 people that pass the open poll. Once you're in a group the polls are only between members of that group, and two get voted off every week, until there's a winner. Those winners go onto the final group (the Grand Cabal), and get voted off once a week until there's a DW Idol.
A bye means you don't have to make an entry for a week, without any penalty. You get a bye if you win your group (cabal) poll one week.
I can try to flowchart this in the next couple of days, if it would help.
Aah! Thanks for clearing that up. So the person who has the Bye vote can give themselves a break, or give it to others. Nice.
A flowchart would be awesome, because visual structured information = win for my way of processing information. (Probably the reason I like making lists and tables.)
Thank you so much for taking the time to answer our questions!
I'll have to update the rules, but that is a good idea. But a person can only use one Bye in a group round.
I'd like to take a lot of this and post it to the main community, since I think people would really benefit from seeing all of this. Can I link this post?
I don't think you'd be laughed at - Yvi and I talk to a lot of DW users in our respective roles, and from what we know of the userbase, I don't think you'd get laughed at. We're all a very tolerant group I believe.
Ugh, earlier I replied to the wrong comment. I should have had breakfast before discussing this, it seems. So, here is what I wrote and what should have been directed at you:
Also, couldn't edit my previous comment, sorry - I just saw your new post to the comm. I have no problems getting the general, basic outline you provided there. That I understand perfectly well. It's the details, with the multiple groups and the voting processes therein with different types of votes and the changing member rosters...
I made that comment earlier, but accidentally clicked the wrong reply link. So in the meantime you'd already provided more explanation. But I wanted to repost the comment to have it in the proper place. As for what I meant with my comment: this was basically a reassurance / clarification that you do not have to overly simplify the explanation to the most basic ground rules like you did in that new post. Because the process you described there, in that simplified version, IS clear and understandable to me. I already got that. What was difficult is the detailed process, with the things we already discussed, e.g. what is a Bye vote.
Currently, I think I need to step back for a bit (and eat something, because I tend to forget that). If after re-reading both this thread and the initial rules I should decide there are still points that confuse me, can I get back to you?
Thank you for asking about it! I'm too brain-foggy right now to read the clarifications, but I hope they'll help.
I had the same problems you did, and I have English as my first language. I think it was kind of written for people who have done similar "idol" challenges.
Good point. Many of the rules, or rather, the terms used therein, aren't really explained. So it would seem they're directed at people who are already familiar with them instead of newcomers. As the comm more or less made the jump from an established LJ presence to here, that would make sense.
It was, my apologies. I hadn't realized that this sort of contest wasn't as universal as all that. As I've offered everyone, if you have questions, please let me know.
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Edited to add: the community mod showed up below.
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As I mentioned above, it's a painkiller day, but I am really confused by who goes from the Pool to the Cabal and why and when.
And are there several of these Cabals going on at once?
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Basically, you go from the Pool to a Cabal when you come in on the top four of a week's poll. There will be multiple Cabals going on at once, as people play every week that aren't in Cabals win polls and get selected. You're only in one at a time, though, so you're competing against the same, smaller group of people.
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Oh, I think I misunderstood that point. I kept thinking the groups would stay fixed after the initial choice of members and just get smaller and smaller, but new members can come in? Is that to prevent thinning out of Cabals, e.g. if too many people get sick or can't make it in time or something? (Giving reasons for a rule can be helpful for my understanding, too.)
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... huh? Why? Is it a perpetual cycle so you practically don't have breaks between choosing Idols?
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Two, I'll just ramble, and you can ask if anything's not clear, and don't see this as a "change your rules to Z or your community sucks", 'kay?
So: We're still wondering -- where "we" is Yvi, dancing_serpent and I, all people who have English as a second language -- if it's a language barrier / colloquial vocabulary thing or a general thing. For me, personally, the descriptions started to blur after a bit. Like I said above, I get the general concept, but the split into Cabals major and minor, plus rules tied to number of members, and who gets to vote on what, became confusing. Especially the Bye vote. What is a Bye vote, and what does it do? Is it for voting someone out instead of in? On the other hand, it says you can "win" it, which makes it sound like a good thing. Is there knowledge from previous instalments that I'm missing? I think I need someone to do a chart for me where it's all structured clearly with points A to B to C and "if X then [arrow pointing to next step]".
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Think of it like this. Everyone starts in the pool. People win polls in the pool (they are among the top four in the week's open poll) and are selected to go into a group (cabal). I start a new group once there's 16 people that pass the open poll. Once you're in a group the polls are only between members of that group, and two get voted off every week, until there's a winner. Those winners go onto the final group (the Grand Cabal), and get voted off once a week until there's a DW Idol.
A bye means you don't have to make an entry for a week, without any penalty. You get a bye if you win your group (cabal) poll one week.
I can try to flowchart this in the next couple of days, if it would help.
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A flowchart would be awesome, because visual structured information = win for my way of processing information. (Probably the reason I like making lists and tables.)
Thank you so much for taking the time to answer our questions!
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I'd like to take a lot of this and post it to the main community, since I think people would really benefit from seeing all of this. Can I link this post?
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Also, couldn't edit my previous comment, sorry - I just saw your new post to the comm. I have no problems getting the general, basic outline you provided there. That I understand perfectly well. It's the details, with the multiple groups and the voting processes therein with different types of votes and the changing member rosters...
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Currently, I think I need to step back for a bit (and eat something, because I tend to forget that). If after re-reading both this thread and the initial rules I should decide there are still points that confuse me, can I get back to you?
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I had the same problems you did, and I have English as my first language. I think it was kind of written for people who have done similar "idol" challenges.
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